Dutch perverts and gropers: #ZegHet

‘Ik pik dit niet meer!’
“I will not take this anymore!”
it doesnt happen to me
Frame 1: “Hé, dit is mij overkomen”. Frame 2: “Het is me nog nooit overkomen, ik denk niet dat het gebeurt.” “Ik zeg je dat het gebeurt.” Frame 3: “Het is mij ook overkomen.” Frame 4: “Het is me nog nooit overkomen, ik denk niet dat het gebeurt.”

There are a few Dutch, male, former Wikipedians who dominate the Wikipedia criticism sites.  If you ask them, and probably even if you do not ask them, they will man-splain to you that the Netherlands is One Big Happy Family, and that they personally created equality for Dutch women by marching in the 60s.

They refer to women in the Wikimedia movement as “gender bitches”, and the criticism sites let them get away with it.

But what do Dutch women say?

The #ZegHet hashtag is the Dutch “Me too” movement. It means “tell all” and was started by Anke Laterveer. You can read about it in English here, and in Dutch here.

As a result of speaking out about her own experience with sexual violence, Laterveer lost her job, but she can’t even talk about it, because of a non-disclosure agreement.

Laterveer werd een landelijk boegbeeld. ,,Ik heb mijn baan erdoor verloren. Het was voor mijn werkgever te ongemakkelijk wat ik aan het doen was, dus moest ik weg. Hoe het precies gegaan is, mag ik niet zeggen.

But slowly, women are coming forward to tell their stories.

Sexual harassment occurs on the street, with friends or at festivals….  Almost every woman has a story about the station in Rotterdam.

Seksuele intimidatie komt ook voor op straat, bij vrienden of op festivals….  Op het station in Rotterdam heeft vrijwel elke vrouw wel een verhaal.

Berfin Dem (age 36) will no longer go to the Kruiskade shopping district in central Rotterdam.  “I am completely finished with it. One man is in the car, the other one jumps out and is on the other side. Then they try to talk you in, or to drag you.”

Op de Kruiskade in Rotterdam komt Berfin Dem (36) niet meer. ,,Ik ben er helemaal klaar mee. De ene man zit in de auto, de ander springt eruit en staat aan de andere kant. Dan proberen ze je naar binnen te praten, of te sleuren.

So what does Wikipedia say about ZegHet and Anke Laterveer?  Crickets. According to Dutch Wikipedia, the hashtag is “#ikook”, not #ZetHet.  Completely unsourced, of course.

The #me too” movement has had an impact in the Netherlands.  There was Daniele Gatti of the Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam, who resigned after an article in The Washington Post.

Soprano Alicia Berneche told The Washington Post that while she was working at the Lyric Opera of Chicago’s Ryan Opera Center in 1996, the conductor invited her to his dressing room for a coaching session before forcing himself on her: “his hand on my rear end, and his tongue down my throat.”

Berneche said she had wanted to report his behaviour but that a friend had warned her not to, saying: “If you come forward, you will be fired, and he will continue.”

Another singer, soprano Jeanne-Michèle Charbonnet also made an allegation against the conductor. She told the paper that in 2000, while they were both working on a production of Wagner‘s The Flying Dutchman in Bologna in Italy the conductor had tried to force himself on her: “I pushed him off and ran out of the room.”

If the Netherlands is such a paradise for women, why does it take an American newspaper to expose these things?

This one is just weird.   Amsterdam has 35 public urinals for men and just 4 public toilets for women.  A male judge in Amsterdam fined a woman €90 for peeing in public and told her that she could have used a men’s urinal.  The resulting “Amsterdam pee in public protest” was cancelled after too many women (around 8,000) wanted to attend.

And then there’s catcalling, and the “dearcatcallers” project on Instagram, similar to the “ten hours of walking in New York as a woman” video. A young Dutch woman spent a month taking selfies of herself with her tormentors.  Like the New York video, it went viral.

The Netherlands is way more violent towards women than the rest ot Europe.  By the time Dutch women reach the age of 15, 45% of them have experienced some form of physical or sexual violence, compared to 33% for the rest of Europe.

But what about equality for women? Haven’t Dutch men have given them everything?

Nope.  When it comes to the pay gap, the Netherlands lags behind much of Europe. Although the Netherlands is first in educational level of women, it ranks 32nd for gender pay equality and 50th in wages for similar work.

The moral of the story?  If you are female, do NOT go to Holland.

8 thoughts on “Dutch perverts and gropers: #ZegHet

  1. I just want to say how spot on this is.

    I recently had the displeasure of disagreeing (on WO) with an anonymous male chauvinist, who is so closed minded that he immediately assumed I must be a woman, because it’s clearly unthinkable to him that a man could believe in things like gender equality. And yet he has the gall to say “if you call me a troll then you’re part of the problem.”


      1. Not this time, although it pains me to defend Carrite. It was one of their new basement-dwelling incels. I tend not to use the word “feminist”, partly because I don’t know what it means and partly because GenX thinks it means “feminine”. But these days the Millennials, including Millennial men, are very likely to describe themselves as feminists.

  2. I figured out the timeline from Wikiipedia’s bio of Flo Ballard and article about Expo 67 (the world’s fair). I Wikipedia lingo, they gave Florence a one-month block in April 1967, the time of the interview above, for “rest and relaxation”. Then she came back from that block in May to go on Ed Sullivan’s show. Sadly she was permanently blocked and banned when she showed up inebriated for a July 1 show in Vegas.

  3. Dunning–Kruger, or going outside one’s own expertise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence How much energy can you spend on trying to get people up to speed?

    Alcoholism and substance abuse are nothing new in the music industry, nor is its concealment. When an artist can’t show up ready for work and is not replaceable, like Sly Stone, it is impossible to hide and brings down the entire group. Ballard is not around to tell her story, so who knows what really happened.

    Griswald and the Supremes:

    ~Barbara Martin, pregnant at the age of 18, left to get married in 1961. This one at least has a photo. http://thesupremes.wikia.com/wiki/Barbara_Martin
    ~Betty McGlown, who she replaced, “left the group to concentrate on her new marriage” in 1960. http://thesupremes.wikia.com/wiki/Betty_Mcglown

    Forget the attacks on Roe v Wade, and the impending Supreme Court disaster, that’s just the appetizer. The one they really want to repeal is Griswold (1965) that made contraception legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut

    And what about photos? The only living Supremes are Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Barbara Martin. Ross and Wilson both have photos on their articles, but not Martin.


    Of the deceased members of the group, Ballard’s article has a photo,

    but not McGlown

    And speaking of Griswold, the article for lead attorney Catherine Roraback (1920 – 2007) is also lacking a photo.

    So where is that dude who used to put “fair use” photos on the women’s articles,… Slowking something?…oh that’s right, the brilliant admin corps is busy sharpening their knives for him.

  4. I’ve also just noticed that “Feminism in the Netherlands” is a thing. Nobody has bothered to translate it into Dutch, much less make navigation templates for women’s subjects.

    Template:Feminism sidebar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Feminism_sidebar
    Template:Women in society sidebar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Women_in_society_sidebar

    I know that the Netherlands is a really small country, but maybe now that ‘MoiraMoira and the genderbitches’ aren’t being disrupted quite so much, they will have time to find someone who wants to work on this. For those who like gadgets, there is now a translation tool in beta.

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